Definition of MODESTY
1: freedom from conceit or vanity
2: propriety in dress, speech, or conduct
Definition of PROPRIETY
1 obsolete : true nature
2 obsolete : a special characteristic : peculiarity
3: the quality or state of being proper or suitable : appropriateness
4a : conformity to what is socially acceptable in conduct or speech b : fear of offending against conventional rules of behavior especially between the sexes
Blending all these definitions together : modesty is actions or attitudes that adopt appropriate, conventional dress, speech and conduct . Modesty involves projecting a consistent image. One is not modest if conventionally dressed but outrageous in speech. Modesty is not conceited or vain or excessively focused on oneself.
The reader should notice that these definitions all imply that modesty is conformity to the ideas of others: you can't be modest in isolation, it is only when there is another that modesty is possible. Modesty is not like piety, humility or honesty which can be practiced in isolation as well as in society. Modesty requires norms which one adopts, it requires conventions and expectations to which we may conform. Modesty is a social virtue (not a moral one) which makes social interactions predictable and bounded thus less risky.
So modesty is wearing a business suit when doing business. It is not attractive but mixes visual appeal which makes others feel secure.
What modesty is not
Why be modest?
Aside from the conformity aspects, why be modest? If it is a virtue there has to be a compelling reason for adopting it. We are honest because it makes accurate judgements of character and ability easier. We are kind because it creates a sense of community and trust. Why are we modest?
If we focus excessively on our self then others will, with justification, feel we are untrustworthy since our motivations will be to achieve our own goals rather than some group goal, but suppose we are a good team player type why shouldn't we wear flashy, revealing, lewd or edgy clothes? "Just judge me by what I do, not how I dress." "What's the harm?"
Why do we care how others act, dress or speak, especially those we don't know or don't know well? Do we all have to meet the same standard of conduct, clarity or appearance even though we think, feel and are shaped differently? Does modesty hide our real self or does it reveal the self we want to project?
As with many things the issue is most clearly defined at the boundaries, the extremes. In this case the extremes are speech which inflames, conduct which outrages or dress that incites. First, it's not about true or false. You have to assume that the immodest person means to excite strong responses through the way they talk, act or dress, otherwise the problem becomes one of acting in ignorance. The reaction to the ignorantly immodest and the intentionally immodest is different: ignorance responds to persuasion and co opting whereas intentional acts do not. I'll leave the unintended for now. Let's focus on the intentional. The person who has the ability to answer, "why?"
What are we hiding from each other when we are modest? It could be we are hiding a vile and vulgar nature when we speak modestly, it could be we are hiding an impulsive, narcissistic or authoritarian personality when we act modestly or it could be we are ... what? when we dress modestly. One of these is not like the other. If we were immodest in dress people would see us in some degree of nakedness. But if we speak immodestly or act immodestly people may find we have flawed personalities, inappropriate thoughts or simple lack of social skills. While walking into a room in your birthday suit may not be a strong suggestion of social skill, it is not the same sort of condemnation as improper thoughts, words or acts. I can only conclude that there are two sorts of modesty, one that is concerned with propriety and control of the way one acts or speaks in society and another that has to do with the way one presents himself. The first is understandable if not justifiable as social conventions which allow each of us the find our way in social settings without upsetting or offending because of who we are. The second is seeking not to upset or offend because of what we are, after all the the shape, texture and color of our body is largely genetic with a minor impact from the degree of physical activity we maintain.
This distinction should make us want to understand what motivates it. Why is appearing in expensive attire more modest than in a simple tunic or no clothes at all? The expensive clothing calls attention to the wearer as flashy, attention seeking or bragging in a way that nudity does not. But is it fair that those who happen to be well endowed or who have been rewarded with a developed physique to be compared directly with the overweight, old, or inactive who have body shapes that don't fit the stereotypical ideal? I don't know about the fairness, if we were truly worried about giving everyone an equal footing then we would define modesty as wearing dimensionally identical tunics or robes which totally obscured the shape. To me this doesn't say "modest" it says clueless, uncritical. Baggy is not modest, it's baggy and awkward.
Real Modesty
How do we dress modestly? This seems to be an eternal controversy, but I think we have the answer. That answer is to turn to the other modesty. We know what propriety in speech and act are, we humans pick up these clues early. It allows communication without alarm. It facilitates social cooperation rather than compromising it. It makes it possible for diverse people to work and live together. So if we want to know what real modesty in dress and grooming are we can use the other modesty as our guide.
What is it?
We don't yell at people standing nearby. We develop a sense of proportionality and sympathy for the feelings of others. This can be adopted as moderating the use of styles of grooming or dress which are used to attract attention just based on visuals; however it still allows creative and expressive space for proportionate innovation. It's not whether colors should be bright or drab or about whether the hem should be above or below some joint or what should or should not be exposed, it is about does the whole appearance fit with the personality, actions and speech of the wearer.
...
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Your thoughts?
1: freedom from conceit or vanity
2: propriety in dress, speech, or conduct
Definition of PROPRIETY
1 obsolete : true nature
2 obsolete : a special characteristic : peculiarity
3: the quality or state of being proper or suitable : appropriateness
4a : conformity to what is socially acceptable in conduct or speech b : fear of offending against conventional rules of behavior especially between the sexes
Blending all these definitions together : modesty is actions or attitudes that adopt appropriate, conventional dress, speech and conduct . Modesty involves projecting a consistent image. One is not modest if conventionally dressed but outrageous in speech. Modesty is not conceited or vain or excessively focused on oneself.
The reader should notice that these definitions all imply that modesty is conformity to the ideas of others: you can't be modest in isolation, it is only when there is another that modesty is possible. Modesty is not like piety, humility or honesty which can be practiced in isolation as well as in society. Modesty requires norms which one adopts, it requires conventions and expectations to which we may conform. Modesty is a social virtue (not a moral one) which makes social interactions predictable and bounded thus less risky.
So modesty is wearing a business suit when doing business. It is not attractive but mixes visual appeal which makes others feel secure.
What modesty is not
- the degree of skin coverage
- the closeness of fit
- obsessive inoffensiveness in speech or conduct
- lack of character definition
- Modesty is never in bad taste
- It is not baggy, ill-fitting or inharmonious clothing.
- It is not measured in inches between people or locations of hems.
Why be modest?
Aside from the conformity aspects, why be modest? If it is a virtue there has to be a compelling reason for adopting it. We are honest because it makes accurate judgements of character and ability easier. We are kind because it creates a sense of community and trust. Why are we modest?
If we focus excessively on our self then others will, with justification, feel we are untrustworthy since our motivations will be to achieve our own goals rather than some group goal, but suppose we are a good team player type why shouldn't we wear flashy, revealing, lewd or edgy clothes? "Just judge me by what I do, not how I dress." "What's the harm?"
Why do we care how others act, dress or speak, especially those we don't know or don't know well? Do we all have to meet the same standard of conduct, clarity or appearance even though we think, feel and are shaped differently? Does modesty hide our real self or does it reveal the self we want to project?
As with many things the issue is most clearly defined at the boundaries, the extremes. In this case the extremes are speech which inflames, conduct which outrages or dress that incites. First, it's not about true or false. You have to assume that the immodest person means to excite strong responses through the way they talk, act or dress, otherwise the problem becomes one of acting in ignorance. The reaction to the ignorantly immodest and the intentionally immodest is different: ignorance responds to persuasion and co opting whereas intentional acts do not. I'll leave the unintended for now. Let's focus on the intentional. The person who has the ability to answer, "why?"
What are we hiding from each other when we are modest? It could be we are hiding a vile and vulgar nature when we speak modestly, it could be we are hiding an impulsive, narcissistic or authoritarian personality when we act modestly or it could be we are ... what? when we dress modestly. One of these is not like the other. If we were immodest in dress people would see us in some degree of nakedness. But if we speak immodestly or act immodestly people may find we have flawed personalities, inappropriate thoughts or simple lack of social skills. While walking into a room in your birthday suit may not be a strong suggestion of social skill, it is not the same sort of condemnation as improper thoughts, words or acts. I can only conclude that there are two sorts of modesty, one that is concerned with propriety and control of the way one acts or speaks in society and another that has to do with the way one presents himself. The first is understandable if not justifiable as social conventions which allow each of us the find our way in social settings without upsetting or offending because of who we are. The second is seeking not to upset or offend because of what we are, after all the the shape, texture and color of our body is largely genetic with a minor impact from the degree of physical activity we maintain.
This distinction should make us want to understand what motivates it. Why is appearing in expensive attire more modest than in a simple tunic or no clothes at all? The expensive clothing calls attention to the wearer as flashy, attention seeking or bragging in a way that nudity does not. But is it fair that those who happen to be well endowed or who have been rewarded with a developed physique to be compared directly with the overweight, old, or inactive who have body shapes that don't fit the stereotypical ideal? I don't know about the fairness, if we were truly worried about giving everyone an equal footing then we would define modesty as wearing dimensionally identical tunics or robes which totally obscured the shape. To me this doesn't say "modest" it says clueless, uncritical. Baggy is not modest, it's baggy and awkward.
Real Modesty
How do we dress modestly? This seems to be an eternal controversy, but I think we have the answer. That answer is to turn to the other modesty. We know what propriety in speech and act are, we humans pick up these clues early. It allows communication without alarm. It facilitates social cooperation rather than compromising it. It makes it possible for diverse people to work and live together. So if we want to know what real modesty in dress and grooming are we can use the other modesty as our guide.
What is it?
We don't yell at people standing nearby. We develop a sense of proportionality and sympathy for the feelings of others. This can be adopted as moderating the use of styles of grooming or dress which are used to attract attention just based on visuals; however it still allows creative and expressive space for proportionate innovation. It's not whether colors should be bright or drab or about whether the hem should be above or below some joint or what should or should not be exposed, it is about does the whole appearance fit with the personality, actions and speech of the wearer.
...
=================================
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