(with credit and thanks to Rachel Held Evans) Her comments are in normal face, mine in italic face
1. Young adult women leave the church because they're better at planning scripture studies than baby showers...
3. They leave the church because their questions were seen as liabilities to be minimized, ignored or suppressed.
1. Young adult women leave the church because they're better at planning scripture studies than baby showers...
- It makes no sense to refuse to use a talent (a gift of God after all) simply because it doesn't fit a preconceived idea of the way that person should be. The example here is based on gender -- there are other issues too.
- The church is always looking for effective teachers, planners and ministers
- Why discard half (or a third or one tenth) of our strength?
- Which verse commands that women should plan social activities but never critical thinking activities?
- We spend way too much time on the evils of sex and way too little on the realities of sex
- We spend way too little time on sin which deadens the testimonies of the young, materialism, injustice, disenfranchisement, greed, worship of worldly talents.
- We have a pattern of teaching that when one is sexually active outside civil marriage (why civil and not sacramental marriage?) that one has lost it all; that one, admittedly unwise, choice nullifies all other choices until it is rectified. It is easier in terms of church status to repent of drug abuse, theft, fraud and cruelty than promiscuity. Why?
- We largely avoid talking about real sexual activity but spent a lot of energy creating elaborate analogies such as 'too close' dancing, immodest dress (mostly in females), steady dating, and flavors of kissing.
- We spend very little formal or informal time teaching how to create a wholesome relationship except to immerse the couples' time in church programs and scripture study. What skills do young adults have that came from the church instruction in conflict resolution, planning, personal development?
- What do we teach the young to do when one or both of them is less interested in spiritual matters than other interests temporarily?
3. They leave the church because their questions were seen as liabilities to be minimized, ignored or suppressed.
- When a difficult question is seen as a risk, liability, or problem it reveals one thing: that we, the questioned, are insecure in our faith.
- Real, true principles will stand up to intense questioning. Truth remains truth no matter how it is examined
- When a church becomes more about a mortal person than a divine one, it has lost its way. The purpose of church is not worship of a person or a class of persons, it is about worship of God - three beings that have overcome the limits of mortality. Every person who lives today is fallible and imperfect. If we use them a exemplars, we risk copying their weaknesses as well as their strengths.
- Humans are social but when we use church membership, seniority or other material factors to control who benefits from church we leave God's stated principle of universality behind and with it the core meaning of discipleship.
- This returns to the meaning of truth. Is something true only if endorsed by hierarchies? Do we really believe in Paul's admonition?
- Can we accept, as at least working truths, those things which appear to be true based on evidence?
- We need two rooms for church meetings, one for the convinced and completely perfect people, and one for the uncertain, searching and doubting people
- If we avoid contact with doubters, who then are we preaching and teaching for? See Rameumpton.
- When church destroys dignity to create propriety it has lost its way. We need to learn to humbly tolerate imperfection and deviation rather than enforce conformity.
- See D&C 121:32-end. It's a basic principle: we don't compel, we persuade gently and with love.
- Never seen this happen in my church.
- Seriously, authoritarian, socially conservative, intolerant, plutocratic and inequitable policies are not taught in scripture
- There is no scripture addressing capitalism as the divine way
- A lot of the scriptures are not about God, they are about Man's failure to respond to God.
- It is a rhetorical trap to insist on the infallibility of scripture. What has been written does not produce perfection by reading, reciting or study. More is needed.
- Those claiming to know "God's ways" usually think they are the same as their own ways. We should expect them to be as humble and teachable before God as they are with us.
- If we can't, in time, understand God's ways, we are doomed. We should worry about it if it will lead to our doom.
- We walk into church proud, selfish and self possessed.
- Instant gratification, even when directed at godliness, is not a gospel principle.
- God has said He is willing to suffer our imperfection as we grow. Shouldn't we human beings do the same?
- If God values women, then He listens to them. He listens to their prayers. He listens to their sermons too. Who are we to deny an act of faith?
- Missionary work is a program of the church. Sharing love, talents and good works are gospel.
- Statistical programs emphasize behavior over belief. Which is the church?
- The gospel tells us to care for the poor until there are no more poor among us.
- When we speak of injustice it usually means an act which violates gospel principles.
- When we make no personal progress in these two areas, we make no progress in our spiritual development. What are the fruits of our labor by which we are known?
- Do we have programs that have statistical measures of the number of poor or abused we have redeemed? Why?
- If what we learn in church doesn't prepare us for real life, then what is its purpose?
- We don't live the set piece stories we are hearing all the time.
- Not all problems have 20 minute answers.
- Reaching beyond the church to compel behavior rather than teach uplifting principle will never work. Civil law compels, always.
- When sexual behavior is used as the entire measure of a man we lose the spirt of God's word.
- If the primal meaning of marriage is the type of people in it, why does the church permit or recognize civil marriages as equivalent to church marriages in mortality?
- Male and female are recognized as equal before the law, there is no legal basis for gender discrimination in civil law if taken to its logical end.
- The basis of gender discrimination is theological. If there is an important difference between same and complimentary gender marriage it is in the church not the community ethics,
- If same gender marriage is a violation of gospel law that means the first action is to restrict marriage to be solely the province of the church. We cannot rely on civil law to enforce church law. Denial of authority to set civil standards for civil contracts is not a church power. If the church wishes this why are they not working to ban civil marriage?
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